4/16 Survivor 20 Discussion

[Erika]

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CBS 8/7c - The Heroes develop a risky strategy to align themselves with a notorious player.

[Erika]

JT's note was classic.

Parvati reading it was hilarious!

[Acfan]

I think that move was sort of similar with Russell giving Idol to Parvati, except a kind of foolish version :lol. JT wasn't in a desperate position like Russell was. They go into merge 5-5, so many ways it could go. He should've worked on uniting his own team than controlling the other. He let go of an idol that he needed more than the other team :lol

I sort of like Parvati, I think she's gotten really cocky, but definitely a good head on her shoulder and a great social game. She's been lucky with the idols, but oh well.

[Erika]

Parvati's edit, of being cocky, makes me think she'll go really far, but not far enough this go round. I think they are trying to play up her being more strategic this time, which is not good for her edit in particular since it's her social game that won it for her last time.

I'll go on record and say that there is no way that Russell wins - he's been put in his place this time and quite nicely. Other people are showing him up, which we'd never see in a winner.

Still I think both of them are very good players, they just aren't as good as they think they are! At this point I'm not rooting for either of them...and JT :rofl His play is being built up as the stupidest move in the history of the show - and this is compared to some doozies: - James leaving with 2 idols in his pocket or - Erik giving away an immunity necklace at the final 5. To rival those 2 in particular, there is no way he goes anywhere but downhill from here out.

[Jay]

Stupid, stupid JT. Amanada was correct; Russell's position in the tribe is unknown. Don't give away the idol yet.

JT's note implores Russell not to share the letter. Next scene : Russell and Parvati giggling at JT's naiveté. :rofl

[Alrak]

I was only able to find the first half of the show on you tube last night
so I didnt know whether or not JT went through with his idiotic plan but I can see now that he did..:lol
Did Parvati ever tell Russell about her own idol ?

[Alrak]

JT's note was classic.

Parvati reading it was hilarious!

Has anyone got a clip of this ?

[Acfan]

Still the dumbest move for me = Erik giving away HII, that was plain plain dumb.

I think had the hunch been right and Russell was on the outs, then this move would be considered a pretty creative power move. Too bad their hunch was wrong and this could end up potentially being very stupid IF JT gets voted out next!

Parvati didn't tell Russell about the idol. The idol king has met his idol queen rival! :lol

[Jay]

Go to Globaltv.com for the latest episode. Advance to about the 21:00 mark, when JT first crafts the letter. Watch the immunity challenge followed by Russell and Parvati's reading of the letter. This is about 13 minutes in total.

[CFK]

Probst's blog and Courtney's pre-show interviews both defend JT's move and I agree with them - it was more unlucky that stupid. Even if there wasn't a female alliance and the Heroes got pagonged, it'd be the sort of thing that might have spared JT a few days over some of his alliance-members. It's not even close to Erik's idol or Colby not taking Keith to the end.

And even though Russell thinks being given the immunity idol is just handing him the million dollars, it's really just handing him a very easy way to lose 5 jury votes :lol

I'll go on record and say that there is no way that Russell wins
I could have predicted that as soon as this season was going to have a jury :p

[toque]

I don't think his move was a necessary one, so it was a calculated risk, but I agree with you CFK, it certainly hasn't been the worst move ever. Erik and James still have it by far...
Assumptions will kill you in this game though.

Russell is definitely faltering. And now using that idol against the heroes is going to tick them off to no end, I agree with that also.
At this point, I think Parv is playing the best game by far. Russell made a risky move saving Parv. I thought she would feel she owes him by his doing that. (I don't know why I thought that, this is PARVATI.) :lol
I find it interesting that she thinks she has Russell wrapped around her little finger though, she better be careful there.

[Acfan]

Both of them better be careful! :lol It's an interesting dynamic!

[Erika]

I agree that it may not be the dumbest move ever, BUT the editors are trying to make us think it rivals it, which is no good for JT. I think the stupidest thing any Survivor ever did was Erik handing over that immunity necklace. James with 2 idols are dumb, but he did have people that he trusted and worked with throughout the game telling him he was ok. Colby in taking Tina over Keith knew that he would win handily over Keith, so that was a decision he made and though we may disagree on whether it was dumb or not, he knew going in that it would be tougher to beat Tina. Erik's passing of the immunity necklace at the final 5 was the dumbest thing ever simply because he gave up safety and left his fate to 4 women that never worked with him in the game, puttingh his trust in them.

JT giving up the idol isn't the smartest thing I've ever seen done, but it was a risk to gain the advantage...again Erik gained nothing in giving up his necklace - he didn't even get a fake final 2 promise from any of the women...he was just dumb.

[Alrak]

Thanks for that link Jay. Unfortunately it wont work from here but I will certainly try it again when I get back home. I just got a message saying " the article you chose is not currently available " I tried a bunch and got the same thing. I have tried other sites and I get " not available in your geographical location " :(
At least I got most of the show on you tube. In fact I got to see the letter being written. I dont think it was the dumbest move but it certainly wasnt a great one...especially considering it was given to Russell who would not necessarily reward JT for it.
I would like to know how Russell is going to explain keeping Parvati. He may have just screwed himself big time.

[kungfuhippie]

Since I'm always touting JT's greatness, I don't want this to become a complete disaster for the heroes. No doubt they jumped to conclusions and that's not good but we haven't seen the outcome yet.
The fact that Parvati is still there will require an explanation and Sandra's friendship with Rupert and dislike of Russell might mitigate the damage.

[Erika]

There is going to be no mitigation I fear - there is no way they would make JT's move rival the 'dumbest move in Survivor History' if it turns out ok for him or anyone that seemed to go along with him. No shot! How can you mitigate 'dumbest move'? Not happening. I think JT was surrounded by some dingbats in Tocantins - remember Coach? And Tyson is not to swift - either outing, so yeah, I never fashioned him a mastermind of any sort, just really likable.

[Acfan]

That bothers me and makes me worried that JT will be next gone. It's not the stupidest thing ever by a mile, it was creative and bold, just unnecessary and sort of foolish jumping to conclusions. It will be painted as VERY stupid only if it will directly cause JT's demise. :(

[Dennis]

It isn't the stupidest move in history. There was a reason for it. Tyson's vote was the stupidest move in history. It was pointless. It could never have helped him.

James and Erik both had reasons as well. James felt he was safe and could save those idols, which would be a benefit for him in coming rounds. Erik was dead the first time he didn't win immunity, so he thought to try and get on the girls side was his best move.

Dumbest move = Tyson
2nd dumbest = Colby

[shadester]

wow this season is so good..who is gonna wim heroes..villain? i was rooting for rob...i am not liking russell as much this time around..i dont know..

[Alrak]

I am surprised how dumb Rupert is looking this season. He was certain of the all girl alliance and sanctioned the plan as well. He insisted that he was the strongest competitor and sucked at the challenge ,and in earlier episodes I saw a nasty side of his personality. Its hard to believe this is the same guy that won Americas Favorite Survivor.

[shadester]

yes i agree but i heard stephanie said she could not beleive the egos of rupert, tom and some others all they wanted to do was talk about themselves..

[Erika]

It isn't the stupidest move in history. There was a reason for it. Tyson's vote was the stupidest move in history. It was pointless. It could never have helped him.

James and Erik both had reasons as well. James felt he was safe and could save those idols, which would be a benefit for him in coming rounds. Erik was dead the first time he didn't win immunity, so he thought to try and get on the girls side was his best move.

Dumbest move = Tyson
2nd dumbest = Colby

I disagree - Tyson did make a very dumb move, I'll agree, but no way it beats out Erik for me. Erik was the only male left in the game and he gave up immunity for nothing. Instead of being out 5th, had he kept the necklace he would be final 4 and had the opportunity to beat: Cirie, Amanda and Parvati in 2 more immunity challenges. To that point he had already beaten them in most if not all of the challenges in the game (Parvati won the bucket over the head one and Erik gave it up for food). To give away complete safety and a 1 in 4 shot at 1 million dollars to gain favor in an all female alliance you were always outside is stupid...plain and simple. At the reunion show they polled the jury members and asked who they would have voted for: Erik would have received the majority of the votes. The last 2 immunity challenges were: climbing a tower, swimming and assembling some nonsense (something similar to what he just won) and the last was a balancing thing. He would have killed them in the final 4 immunity and dare I say had a descent shot at the final 3 immunity as well. The golden rule: never give up immunity to the enemy. DUMB. DUMB. DUMB. He went from a 25% shot at winning the game to a 100% certainty that he would leave 5th.

As far as Colby taking Tina to the finals, I again contend that was a full knowing move on Colby's part. He KNEW if he took Keith it was a sure win and opted not to because of the close bond he had with Tina. It might be stupid to you or something you'd never do, but I honestly felt like that was part of Colby - he just didn't feel right not taking her. It was a moral decision - not a strategic one and for me there is a huge difference...Colby didn't take Tina to the finals because he felt it was the better strategic option - he knew it was not.

[Dennis]

You have a much better memory of the Erik situation that I did. With those facts, I definitely would have to concede that is more stupid than Tyson. However, I still think that if the goal is winning then Colby's move has to be considered stupid too. I totally understand where you are coming from with the morals and all, and I frankly was proud of him for making the choice and think he should've still won.

[kungfuhippie]

In that case, Lil's taking Sandra instead of Fairplay was stupid and Ian making the deal with Tom was stupid too. I agree with Erika that these moves aren't stupid since they are done with knowledge of what can happen. They are bad moves if you are only concerned with winning. But when faced with the decision, some people decide that winning isn't the only thing they're concerned with.

[Dennis]

Oh, I know. I am coming at it from a standpoint that winning is the goal. I don't have a problem at all with what Colby did and it made me like him even more. I'm a fan! As for Ian, not so much. Would Lil have beaten Fairplay?

[kungfuhippie]

I think conventional wisdom says that Fairplay was hated and Lil wasn't. I have no idea if that's true though.
I remember in Africa people said that Kim made a mistake taking Ethan instead of Lex to the end, because Lex's edit made him out to be a paranoid crazy man. However, I read that Kim felt she couldn't win against either of them and so she took the one she thought deserved the money more.

[Acfan]

I think JT was surrounded by some dingbats in Tocantins - remember Coach? And Tyson is not to swift - either outing, so yeah, I never fashioned him a mastermind of any sort, just really likable.

I still think JT is pretty awesome in Tocantins. Leader, challenge competitor, good social game, strategic too. I think we see sparks of that this season, but he's a loose cannon without a solid partner. His main ally is Rupert :shrug I think most season there are players who could be swayed and such, in different ways. He got to Coach and Tyson. Natalie and Russell got to people who distrusted Erik.

[Erika]

In that case, Lil's taking Sandra instead of Fairplay was stupid and Ian making the deal with Tom was stupid too. I agree with Erika that these moves aren't stupid since they are done with knowledge of what can happen. They are bad moves if you are only concerned with winning. But when faced with the decision, some people decide that winning isn't the only thing they're concerned with.
I'd say using that logic, those were dumb moves too...

Using more of that logic Rafe giving Danni an out not to take him to the finals was pretty dumb I'd say to - on par with the Ian debacle. Sugar's entire game in Gabon was also suspect, if you make winning your ultimate goal.

[CFK]

I don't think any of the moves this season have been dumber than some of the "classics" like Kimmi telling Ogakor about Jeff having prior votes or Brandon completely throwing away the chance to get the numbers for Samburu or Alex telling Rob C that he was planning to vote him off in fourth place. All the idols and ridiculous twists have made it much harder to make moves that are obviously awful - it's more a case of gambles that either pay off (Russell giving away his idol) or don't (JT's plan).

I think conventional wisdom says that Fairplay was hated and Lil wasn't. I have no idea if that's true though.Fairplay would have almost definitely beaten Lill - she was doomed to lose against anyone due to being an outcast who wasn't particularly well-liked.

There was a great story about how the Outcasts voted Lill back into the game just to get rid of her :lol

Using more of that logic Rafe giving Danni an out not to take him to the finals was pretty dumb I'd say toDanni has said in interviews that she would have voted him out regardless, so I don't think it made any difference - even if the jury thought she'd backstabbed him, there was no way she could have ever lost to Stephenie.

[Jahim]

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Quite possibly my favorite moment ever, certainly this season.