The Mole: Fun Edition

[Acfan]

Sure, the digging challenge was luck based, for everyone but the mole. What else do we based our decision on though? If we want to earn money in the pot, which is what we should go for, then we gotta try to give it to someone. And I hope people see that as far as giving away exemption, I'm not a bad candidate for it, as I mentioned with my reasons. If you have a better reason though, like I said, feel free to say it.

[Jazzed]

Originally Posted by SevenOneTwo

Well I can't say I was able to follow what's going on here... I guess I'm out of the running now (thanks anyway Lan )? And we're down to Chril vs Acfan? I guess I don't really have any official say in who gets it between those two Chirl definitely made the point I was about to..

Well to be honest I think it's kind of rediculous the way this discussion and decision has been hogged by one person (meaning Lan)..
Why wouldn't you be eligible for it, or not have a say in the matter officially equally so in fact or Chirl, just because he has some reservations on who he does or doesn't trust.

I don't see why you should pay any attention to that.
To me well I'm kind of ambivalent about it tbh. I don't really mind if one of you (Acfan, 712 or Chirl) gets it but I'm fine with it not being won too and I can totally see why you or Chirl would be unhappy about it too the way this discussion is going. No offense to Acfan btw, she makes a good point but I really wouldn't mind it going to either of you three based on similar reasons (712 eg made sure we doubled our points at some point too, which was luck based as well but still did well for us as a group too ).

The 'deserving' part is difficult to determine anyway in this case.
I think you shouldn't do anything you actually prefer not to do. Definitely when it is because one person seems to want to determine how things will be going down here.

You guys decide what you all feel happy and ok with to do yourselves. I think that's basically the only 'fair' way of going about it since 'merit' is indeed difficult to determine between the people eligible / mentioned before.

[Acfan]

Whatever we decide to do, we have to make it fast. I'd rather lose the challenge by everyone doing different things and participating, than not getting our 'decisions' in because we didn't decide.

I say unless Nyu wants to give 712 an exemption, then it would ruin it if we chose 712. Only because chances of 712 actually getting an exemption would not be good and we lose the challenge.

Me or Chirl.. so far, both groups have seemed supportive. How do we decide? I'm partial to myself of course. I think in the end, it would be up to the other people to decide though, esp. Jazzed, Daniel, Brendan and Skunki.

[Jazzed]

Yes I think you're right. Sorry it's still early so I forgot to take into account NYU's point of view about the exemption wrt 712, so it seems it's not likely 712 will get the exemption.

As said before I am pretty much neutral about either one of you getting the exemption.
Daniel said he didn't want the exemption anyway so I guess it's down to how Chirl, Brendan and Skunki feel about it?

[Lan]

Originally Posted by Jazzed

Yes I think you're right. Sorry it's still early so I forgot to take into account NYU's point of view about the exemption wrt 712, so it seems it's not likely 712 will get the exemption.

As said before I am pretty much neutral about either one of you getting the exemption.
Daniel said he didn't want the exemption anyway so I guess it's down to how Chirl, Brendan and Skunki feel about it?

But when I actually say 712 getting the exemption is not possible, I'm a ridiculous discussion hogger. And then you suggest everyone to just do whatever they want and don't listen to me at all, effectively making you the one who's apparently in charge of this discussion when you can't even vote and trying to sabotage this challenge in the process

Which does bring me to having to apologise for failing to comprehend that apparently Skunki and Jazzed can't even vote for the exemption so we don't have to worry about either of those, leaving Chirl and AcFan as the options with just Brendan and Daniel being the deciding votes within those groups, who'd both look pretty odd not giving it to the other person since they've both pretty much confirmed to be okay with that. So although I'm personally leaning towards AcFan for having a more convincing argument why she's not suspicious, I think I'd be okay with Chirl getting it.

[Daniel]

IMO the more suspicious of the two should get it I'd rather give it to the mole than to someone who could potentially do worse than myself in the quiz xD

[Jazzed]

Originally Posted by Lan

And then you suggest everyone to just do whatever they want and don't listen to me at all, effectively making you the one who's apparently in charge of this discussion when you can't even vote and trying to sabotage this challenge in the process

Which does bring me to having to apologise for failing to comprehend that apparently Skunki and Jazzed can't even vote for the exemption so we don't have to worry about either of those,

I never called you a 'rediculous discussion hogger' but I don't think the way you went about trying to make everyone do as you wanted it done from the beginning was very democratic, no...
Besides you mentioned not trusting people being reliable and honest to each other, though you hardly even know them which I felt was a bit presumptuous.

Just because I'm not playing for the exemption myself (or Skunki for that matter) doesn't mean we are not allowed have an opinion on the matter I would say.. In fact my only contribution was to say that people should not do something they felt uncomfortable with doing just because someone else told them to do so. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I don't like the way you dismiss people or the validity of their arguments to be honest. In the end we all have to solve this together whether you like it or not.
Also if you dismiss people now it may bite you in the ass later..

@Daniel
Which of the two is the more suspicious then, based on what? I think they both made more arguments why neither of them was.

[Lan]

I actually didn't say that your arguments didn't make sense, you did to that to me. You can actually read back the past tasks and see that basically every time I state my opinion you say it's either wrong or it doesn't make any sense. So I feel like the last part of your post should be directed at yourself rather than to me since you're basically dismissing me and my arguments entirely, and not just in this task, and I haven't done that at all I feel. (unless you can tell me when I've been dismissing people?)

I do think what I've been doing is democratic, I'm stating what my opinion is, and seeing that in our group with NYU already against anyone getting it my vote is crucial. If you want to dismiss me, that's fine, but then I'm not the one that's not being very democratic.

Yes, I don't trust people to do as they say, is that really odd in a game that has at the very least one liar in it? The fact that you can vouch for Brendan being 100% trustworthy earlier is at least as presumptious as me not trusting people (unless you have some sort of proof who the Mole is)

@ Daniel,

I see your point. Giving it to the Mole would be the best solution since that wouldn't have any effect. However, I feel like the chances that you're giving it to the Mole are slim at best, so you're probably giving it to someone that's suspicious but not the Mole, which is not good for the group or you as an individual, since that's one more suspect to worry about. But if we do decide to go with your idea of picking the more suspicious person, who would it be?

[Jazzed]

Originally Posted by Lan

I actually didn't say that your arguments didn't make sense, you did to that to me.

Your argument at the beginning of this discussion was we should all go for 712 since you trusted yourself, and Brendan and Skunki could not be trusted with supporting a vote for Chirl. In case my previous posts were unclear as to why I felt that made no sense I will recap it briefly for you.
1. Many people including me don't know you that well so you saying people can trust you doesn't mean that much to them yet.
2. You have proven to try to block people from getting an exemption on a few occasions in this game (eg not wanting 712 to open his box, not wanting any further digging).
3. You presumed Brendan would basically screw over Chirl. Most people here I think that know Brendan a little, know that he likes Chirl a lot and would not do that to her. Brendan can be fiercely loyal, even in a game like the Mole.

Also you never took into account how things would be in my own group. Therefore your argument didn't make much sense to me.

So I feel like the last part of your post should be directed at yourself rather than to me since you're basically dismissing me and my arguments entirely, and not just in this task, and I haven't done that at all I feel. (unless you can tell me when I've been dismissing people?)

I don't think I dismissed you here?
I think your argument was not based on valid premises. That's why I didn't think it was a solid one especially since there's no proof sofar that Brendan would in fact do what you supposed he would. I gave you my reasonings for that.

As for dismissing people, I think your last post says enough:

Skunki and Jazzed can't even vote for the exemption so we don't have to worry about either of those

I haven't dismissed anyone in this game as far as I know. If I didn't agree with something I have always told you why I didn't agree.

Yes, I don't trust people to do as they say, is that really odd in a game that has at the very least one liar in it?

Brendan hadn't even said he would or would not you just assumed it.

The fact that you can vouch for Brendan being 100% trustworthy earlier is at least as presumptious as me not trusting people (unless you have some sort of proof who the Mole is)

No I am saying I have no reason to think he would do that to her based on past experience. Not saying I can't be proven wrong but at least I have a reason to base an assumption on which is not the same as a presumption without a reason.

At any rate I never intended to make anyone feel like they were dismissed. Merely to voice my opinion on something as after all this is a discussion and we can all give our input, right?
So now that we've established that neither of us tried to 'dismiss' anyone and can chalk this up to forum communication and interpretation, we should probably concentrate on the intrinsics of the discussion.

So who wants to vote for Acfan, and who would prefer to vote for Chirl?
Maybe we can determine this by a show of virtual hands?

[Lan]

The bolded part wasn't dismissing you or Skunki, I'm just stating that in terms of voting you and him both aren't factors. That doesn't mean your opinions or arguments are any less valuable, just that in terms of coming up with a plan for voting you and him can both be left out of the calculations. Also, I didn't say that we should all go with 712, I said I wanted him to have it, and I feel that there's a distinct difference.

Also, I actually was one of the people that wanted 712 to open his box, I did not say Brendan would 'screw Chirl over', so your recap is only 33% correct at the most, although the only one that I can't prove incorrect is you telling me how other people think.

But I think you're right that it's better to focus on this challenge I think the idea of everyone just telling who they feel should get it is a good idea.

So:
Voting for Chirl:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Voting for AcFan:
1. Lan
2.
3.
4.
5.

[Jazzed]

Alright the box was ambivalent, since it could contain both something positive and something negative for any player and the team, it was never stated that there was an exemption at stake or not. Wrt the digging (where clearly there were exemptions at stake) you did say you didn't want more jokers or exemptions being dug up.

You have on more than one occasion voiced you didn't want any more or other people to have an exemption however, so I don't think what I said about you having done that in this game is incorrect. This is in part why I didn't think we should leave it up to you necessarily.

As for what you said about Brendan and Skunki:

Originally Posted by Lan

We can decide on like Chirl but I don't trust Skunki or Brendan to give it up, for example.

Basically you said that whatever Brendan might say or not he wouldn't give it up to Chirl anyway. This was before Brendan had even said anything in the thread.

So no my recap was not 'about 33 % correct'..

I actually wanted to move on but it looks like you don't and want to make this personal so whatever really.

You just keep doing your thing and I'll do mine.

[Lan]

Oh, that's nice. You can say things that aren't correct and then if I try to correct those things being said about me I'm the one making it personal? I said I agreed with you about focussing on the task, but I wanted to get things that I felt weren't fair to me off my chest. And once again you're wrong, since I did not on more than occasion state that, I stated that once. Also, you're putting words into my mouth (again) with respect to what I said about Brendan. This isn't about Brendan specifially at all, I just used him and Skunki as examples why I felt more confident giving it to 712, since from my own point of view I trust myself more than Skunki and Brendan.

But I'm done defending myself against you, you can continue ranting about me all you like, the only post I'll be making about this challenge will be about the challenge itself.

[lukegrah]

Just a friendly reminder that everyone's pm is due today. Also, not saying this has happened, but I wanted to make it clear: each person will only be sending in either "I am taking the exemption" or "I am not taking the exemption"

[lukegrah]

I have received a great question, so have decided to answer it publicly. If somebody in the challenge does not send in whether they are taking the exemption or not, then it will be perceived that they chose not to take the exemption.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Lan

Oh, that's nice. You can say things that aren't correct and then if I try to correct those things being said about me I'm the one making it personal? I said I agreed with you about focussing on the task, but I wanted to get things that I felt weren't fair to me off my chest. And once again you're wrong, since I did not on more than occasion state that, I stated that once. Also, you're putting words into my mouth (again) with respect to what I said about Brendan. This isn't about Brendan specifially at all, I just used him and Skunki as examples why I felt more confident giving it to 712, since from my own point of view I trust myself more than Skunki and Brendan.

But I'm done defending myself against you, you can continue ranting about me all you like, the only post I'll be making about this challenge will be about the challenge itself.

Why am I always used as the bad guy in the examples? Nobody ever makes me the hypothetical hero.